#76 7-1-2017 11:16 PM

Sept922
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

I wish I was Grandmar..from this thread there are a few who don't really "see" the OP's frustration.

 

#77 7-1-2017 11:20 PM

Bojasem
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

You can ignore it.

 

#78 7-2-2017 7:12 PM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Maybe to avoid misunderstand and frustration, a better way to ask "where are you from" is to ask "which ethnic are you?" Or "Where are your ancestors from?"

Sept922 wrote:

Many times it involves yelling supposed Asian words across a room or from a group of people towards another. Imagine sitting in a classroom with people making Asian sounds in the back of the room while non Asians laugh.

This sounds like those school bullies.

 

#79 7-3-2017 11:24 AM

neo_dare_devil
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

grandmar wrote:

neo_dare_devil wrote:

neo_dare_devil wrote:

The other lady asked me where I was born and I said in "Manila".  The lady without any hesitation said , " is that  where kids are on the streets picking up rubbish?".

Oh no don't be sorry because I was not offended. I felt sorry for the old lady  because  I was sarcastic and she probably  knew  that I  understood what  her intentions were. It is actually good  that there are forum posts
like  this that  we  can discuss in the travel community. I am pretty sure  that most  of the members here are definitely more open minded  and civil about their responses.

I wondered if this was because of a recent movie like "Slum Dog Millionaire" (although that is about India).  But I think that this was most likely a case of someone whose mouth operated without censorship by the brain.  I have blurted out things like that - as soon as I said it, I knew I should have kept quiet. 

And of course places that we love or live in can have bad publicity so people who are not familiar with them know them only by the news stories.  For instance I grew up in Baltimore and the riots and murders in the past couple of years have given the city a bad reputation.  But I know the area where the riots happened and outside of that area there's really no problem.

I get your point about  bad publicity  and the media's  influence on "some" people's  perception  about places they have not visited  but this is just  a way of rationalizing unacceptable behaviors. There is always a way to ask things without trying  to mock a person's background. With the technology at hand and internet or even being creative about the words to use there is no freaking way  to not know things like for example maybe just  ask the person like, " I have never been there so tell me something about that place" ?

To not confuse the people that  would read my reply I just want  to go  back on my previous post about my trip. When I said I was not offended I based  my feelings on  what  the message  was  conveyed  to me. I interpreted  it  in a way  that  the lady does not believe  in the facts  that I presented her   and she  used  her words to make me feel that  there is something wrong  about the place where I was born. I was not  offended  because I did not care about  what she thinks  and what  she wanted me to feel. That is  how I am as a person. I am  not ignoring the fact there is something wrong. Yes , it is wrong to be stereotyped  or be mocked because I was born in a city in Southeast Asia but personally I would not stress my self on being annoyed on what  she thinks because there are far more serious issues  to focus on. I am also not generalizing that all people  from the  city and country that I have visited  are racist and ignorant because most of  my travels  out of town , in the capital and majority of my experience went really fine and met locals  that are nice.

Last edited by neo_dare_devil (7-4-2017 5:51 AM)

 

#80 7-4-2017 7:37 AM

nolan
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Who to blame for propagating these stereotypes:

1) Hollywood, to a great extent. Not all Chinese movies are kung-fu fighting with Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee. Nor are all Japanese movies only featuring Ken Watanabe. Also Bollywood and other film industries in other countries.

2) mainstream media, especially those with their own particular agenda - no need to elaborate on this, as it is a very sensitive issue that gets blown out of proportion often

3) business travelers and backpackers and package tourists - they are obviously the ones who can afford to travel, but they don't always represent the rest of the country they're from

So the locals of the country being visited (whether Americans meeting Chinese/Asians in USA, or Asians meeting Westerners in their home country, etc. etc. etc.) will have different perceptions of a particular ethnicity. Some even see Westerners/Easterners as missionaries, traders, students, investors, etc. as they were in the 20th century and until the present.

But the biggest source of exposure which includes a lot of biases - 4) social media. Now almost anyone with access to a computer, phone or tablet and the internet can read a plethora of differing views on certain cultures and ethnicity, and skew it to their own selfish agenda.

 

#81 7-4-2017 9:35 AM

grandmar
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

neo_dare_devil wrote:

I get your point about  bad publicity  and .. "some" people's  perception  about places they have not visited  but this is just  a way of rationalizing unacceptable behaviors. There is always a way to ask things without trying  to mock a person's background. ..... I was not  offended  because I did not care about  what she thinks  and what  she wanted me to feel. That is  how I am as a person. I am  not ignoring the fact there is something wrong...

In the specific example you quoted (an old lady who said something negative about your country), you say you do not care about what she thinks.  I think you are wrong.  In some places (not so much in the USA but in other places) old people are respected and sometimes these old people do say things that are not politically correct because they say what is on their mind regardless of the consequences.  So you should respect the lady's age and plain speaking, even if you don't like it.  You should care that she doesn't know much about your country and you should appreciate that she is willing to have a dialogue about it even if she doesn't know that much about it.

Also of course there is the possibility that she does not have all her brain cells in working order due to age or disease, and in that case she needs to have some leeway granted to her because she's not completely responsible.

 

#82 7-4-2017 11:40 PM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

!!!???? Grandmar that sounds strange to me what you are saying.  If she was deliberately saying something negative as Kharlo stated, then there is no need to engage her. So what if she doesn't know much about his country. Should he care JUST because someone knows little about his country. There is only so much time in a day, why waste it on those you don't want to? Willing to have a dialogue, even if it a put down? You are saying it seems that she should get a pass because she is old. Why? She won't be likely to listen to what he has to say anyhow if her mind is set. Why waste time? He did exactly as he felt and he didn't want to engage her. I feel that was mature.

Looking back on his post he said older ladies....we don't even know how old he or she is so.....still she walked away instead of saying "well I heard that" ...and maybe letting him engage her..but she walked away which is telling. Especially since there are poor kids in our country (the states) living rough on the streets and WE are SUPPOSED to set the standard but we don't at all.

Last edited by Sept922 (7-4-2017 11:44 PM)

 

#83 7-5-2017 12:50 AM

neo_dare_devil
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

grandmar wrote:

neo_dare_devil wrote:

I get your point about  bad publicity  and .. "some" people's  perception  about places they have not visited  but this is just  a way of rationalizing unacceptable behaviors. There is always a way to ask things without trying  to mock a person's background. ..... I was not  offended  because I did not care about  what she thinks  and what  she wanted me to feel. That is  how I am as a person. I am  not ignoring the fact there is something wrong...

In the specific example you quoted (an old lady who said something negative about your country), you say you do not care about what she thinks.  I think you are wrong.  In some places (not so much in the USA but in other places) old people are respected and sometimes these old people do say things that are not politically correct because they say what is on their mind regardless of the consequences.  So you should respect the lady's age and plain speaking, even if you don't like it.  You should care that she doesn't know much about your country and you should appreciate that she is willing to have a dialogue about it even if she doesn't know that much about it.

Also of course there is the possibility that she does not have all her brain cells in working order due to age or disease, and in that case she needs to have some leeway granted to her because she's not completely responsible.

Don't get me wrong with this. I respect your opinion .I respect elderly people and  if they  were mentally ill I would  totally understand  that  they might have  a clouded  judgement. My response  is not  pertaining to you  or  blanketing all  older people. I  shared my personal  experience  to this  forum trying to let people understand  that  my personal experiences and feelings  are subjective and  if  I say that  I felt offended  or not  no one  should  preach me that I am wrong , overly  sensitive , or just plain slurring certain group of people.

When I posted  my thoughts  that "I do not care what she thinks about my birthplace" and  what " She wanted me to feel" I was trying  to explain that  I was quick  enough  to respond  to her slur (the older lady from the group walking tour ) and  was not offended  by her opinion because I didn't care what insult she threw on me to make  me feel  bad about myself and heritage. Sometimes  we don't have a  problem with our own opinion but often with other people. Is it really acceptable to say that we should respect other people's opinion  even if their opinions are offensive to others. There should always be a line to be drawn  on  what is acceptable and not  to  the person  being targeted which is me in that situation. I hope  I have explained  my  part here  and  I apologize  if  my words  rubbed  you the wrong way.

Last edited by neo_dare_devil (7-5-2017 2:05 AM)

 

#84 7-5-2017 7:58 AM

grandmar
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

I meant respect the person, not the opinion.  My parents had some opinions (prejudiced opinions) which I disagreed with, but that did not mean that I did not love and respect them, even while I thought they were wrong about this one thing.  I understand where the problem came from, but it was still wrong. (And I still think they were wrong even now that I'm old - so it wasn't just me being young and lacking world experience)   There is a saying (I think Ben Franklin) which goes - A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.  So if you say that we should draw a line and not allow certain bad things to be expressed, that just means that it goes undercover - it does not change what is thought.  The thoughts fester and poison.  At least if the thought is expressed, it is out in the open where you can see and deal with it and it won't lurk and then come back and bite you in the ass.

In the case of your old lady, I still think that it was a case of ignorance and not prejudice.  Ignorance is possible to change.   You seem to feel that she was being disparaging about your culture, and maybe she was, but I feel that it came from a lack of information.

 

#85 7-6-2017 1:29 AM

kylepimp
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Haha you must be irritated.. I know lots of white people do that kind of stupid stuff. And they don't mean to be mean to you. So please understand and you just need to ignore those unfortunately.

 

#86 7-7-2017 3:25 PM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Just wanted to share this in case many of you have preconceived notions of the Chinese mainlanders. While it is no excuse for many of them to display lack of manners (especially among the middle class and rich), this is an enlightening explanation by a Singaporean Chinese about why the mainland Chinese behave in such way. And note, they are very different from Chinese in the rest of the world even though their ethnicity is similar.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-many-midd … inese-rude

Notice I haven't tackled yet mainland Chinese tourist behavior. That is a huge discussion for sure.

 

#87 7-7-2017 7:38 PM

grandmar
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

I was reading the time-line of the difficulties in China and I thought it went back pretty far
1899 - Boxer Rebellion
1911 -End of Qing Dynasty. Sun Yat Sen founded democractic China
1916 -Warlord Era

My great uncle was a missionary to China - He opened a station at Yihsien, Shantung Province in 1905 - after the Boxer Rebellion.  His daughter was born in there on 6 March 1911. In 1912 there was a cholera epidemic and he was tasked with visiting families to see if they were really sick and should receive aid. On their journey back to the states on furlough, he became very sick. His wife handed her child over to the other ladies on the ship while she cared for her husband. They were put off the ship in Canada, where he was nursed back to health by nuns.

The family returned to China.  From 1923 until his departure from China, he worked with the American Consulate, R.P. Tenney, to secure the release of foreign captives after the wreck of the "Blue Express" on May 6, 1923 and continued to supply information about the bandit situation in his area. This was during the Warlord era.  They returned to the US because of his wife's ill health in 1927 - about the time of the Nanchang Uprising.

I think the analysis of the reason for the rudeness may be quite accurate, but I don't think you need to go that far back in history.

 

#88 7-9-2017 3:10 AM

harbinger
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

nolan wrote:

Just wanted to share this in case many of you have preconceived notions of the Chinese mainlanders. While it is no excuse for many of them to display lack of manners (especially among the middle class and rich), this is an enlightening explanation by a Singaporean Chinese about why the mainland Chinese behave in such way. And note, they are very different from Chinese in the rest of the world even though their ethnicity is similar.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-many-midd … inese-rude

Notice I haven't tackled yet mainland Chinese tourist behavior. That is a huge discussion for sure.

Very interesting article, Nolan, and one that explains - if not excuses - much of the behaviour I have found challenging over the years.  But probably this deserves a new thread of its own.

 

#89 7-9-2017 4:34 AM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

grandmar wrote:

I was reading the time-line of the difficulties in China and I thought it went back pretty far
1899 - Boxer Rebellion
1911 -End of Qing Dynasty. Sun Yat Sen founded democractic China
1916 -Warlord Era

My great uncle was a missionary to China - He opened a station at Yihsien, Shantung Province in 1905 - after the Boxer Rebellion.  His daughter was born in there on 6 March 1911. In 1912 there was a cholera epidemic and he was tasked with visiting families to see if they were really sick and should receive aid. On their journey back to the states on furlough, he became very sick. His wife handed her child over to the other ladies on the ship while she cared for her husband. They were put off the ship in Canada, where he was nursed back to health by nuns.

The family returned to China.  From 1923 until his departure from China, he worked with the American Consulate, R.P. Tenney, to secure the release of foreign captives after the wreck of the "Blue Express" on May 6, 1923 and continued to supply information about the bandit situation in his area. This was during the Warlord era.  They returned to the US because of his wife's ill health in 1927 - about the time of the Nanchang Uprising.

I think the analysis of the reason for the rudeness may be quite accurate, but I don't think you need to go that far back in history.

This is great insight, Rosalie - and I think we can go as far back in history to better understand the Chinese.
Remember they were once the greatest empire during the time Europe was colonizing the rest of the world. The Qing Dynasty was established in 1636 and ruled China from 1644 to 1912, this was considering the great dynasty after the Ming Dynasty (another great one).

However for much of the late 19th and half of the 20th century they were humiliated many times, both internally and externally (e.g. Japanese invasion of Manchuria, First Sino-Japanese War, etc.). And then the rise of the British Empire, which controlled about a quarter of the world in terms of land area in 1920. So now they are beginning to reclaim that title and hence you see some expansionism, especially in the South China Sea.

I think to really experience the rudeness up close in terms of travel one should try to join the hordes of Chinese going back to their home provinces during the Chinese New Year holidays.

 

#90 7-11-2017 4:34 AM

Globevoyager
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Yes, been called Gringo many times while traveling in Spanish speaking countries. Been called "White Nose" on almost a dailly basis in Africa in the language or dialect of each country. I've been called German, Belgian and Scandinavian many times.

I don't find any of these offensive. I have no problems with it at all. It says more about the other person, your response says more about you.
Why does it matter so much? It doesn't make you better or less. Most people just try to engage in a conversation with you, without any bad intentions or intentionally trying to offend you.

People are interested in where you are from. They guess, based on their knowledge. Unless someone has a strong accent in a language you're familiar with, it's hard to guess where some one is exactly from. Don't forget, the majority of us here on TB have traveled and experienced so much much much more than 99,9% of the world.

Most of the time I just smile and ignore it or play the game with them. No harm done. No embarressment for either of the parties. Only sometimes I ignore it when it has a bad taste or I really need some alone time while traveling.

Last edited by Globevoyager (7-11-2017 4:52 AM)

 

#91 10-6-2017 4:55 AM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

I'm going to China soon. Let's see if the locals will try to initially talk to me in Mandarin.

 

#92 10-8-2017 12:35 AM

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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

In our country they know only few people as below. They don't care your nationality or passport on first look.
English - to white skin people - American - european
Chinese - to east Asians
Indian-  to south Asian and middle east people
African - to all Africans

 

#93 10-12-2017 3:51 AM

KarinaKalinka
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Re: Please stop it! My name is not "Chinese" or "Ni hao"

Wow! What a long thread! I haven't posted here in a while and I've read quite a few of the replies here, but not all. I get the 'Ni Hao' occasionally too but it honestly doesn't bother me..I have met many other people during my travels who are intelligent, funny and curious to know more about the world.
Let me try to put a little twist on this - I have seen both sides of the coin, coming from a background of mixed parentage - I have had the Malaysian Chinese being downright rude and dismissive with me on several occasions because I can't speak Chinese, and I find this ignorant on many levels, but I also choose not to bother because there are plenty of other open-minded and curious people out there who are not limited in their communication. Perhaps because this sort of situation happens to an extent, not everyone gets to learn what the Chinese or China are all about, and all they can say is 'Ni Hao'. China is so huge and has so many cultures, I have been lucky to see some of it, which I have blogged about on my page. 'Ni hao' is really just the tip of the iceberg. Happy travels!

Last edited by KarinaKalinka (10-12-2017 4:01 AM)

 

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