#26 6-10-2017 7:18 AM

grandmar
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

My comment was about a shop in a museum in Norway and not Sydney.  My thought was that the sales people were lazy and didn't want to bother to sell anything because they were on salary and not commission.

I think my experiences in Sydney were probably radically different from yours at least partly because I am female.  No one would expect, looking at me, that I would be trying to flirt (even if I was).  I traveled with a different grandchild and she thought that all of the waiters etc were trying to hit on her.  It spooked her.  And maybe they were.  She was 12 but she used a lot of make-up and people thought she was much older.

 

#27 6-10-2017 7:48 PM

jacobi
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

changer7 wrote:

Grandmar is correct, the feeling I got in sydney is that you can't even look at people you don't know even if you are not trying to flirt with them. No one seems approachable, people just put on an arrogant face like they don't know you. It's like no one is human and in their own world. This is especially true amongst young people who go to university.

If you try to look at woman to make a conversation with them they just look away as if you stole something, people are not approachable.

It's not my imagination. It feels like a robotic society with no courtesy. Even on public transport people don't show any manners like excuse me, and don't even say thank you or make eye contact.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you.  I'm dubious of you already because you have nothing on your profile. Of course people are approachable, but why are you just wanting to make conversation with someone? Unless you have a genuine reason to need to talk to someone, then these days people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy. Excuse mes and thankyous are disappearing all over the world, it's not just Sydney.

Last edited by jacobi (6-10-2017 7:50 PM)

 

#28 6-10-2017 9:43 PM

ulis
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

jacobi wrote:

changer7 wrote:

Grandmar is correct, the feeling I got in sydney is that you can't even look at people you don't know even if you are not trying to flirt with them. No one seems approachable, people just put on an arrogant face like they don't know you. It's like no one is human and in their own world. This is especially true amongst young people who go to university.

If you try to look at woman to make a conversation with them they just look away as if you stole something, people are not approachable.

It's not my imagination. It feels like a robotic society with no courtesy. Even on public transport people don't show any manners like excuse me, and don't even say thank you or make eye contact.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you.  I'm dubious of you already because you have nothing on your profile. Of course people are approachable, but why are you just wanting to make conversation with someone? Unless you have a genuine reason to need to talk to someone, then these days people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy. Excuse mes and thankyous are disappearing all over the world, it's not just Sydney.

Thinking the same...

 

#29 6-11-2017 1:37 AM

shavy
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

ulis wrote:

jacobi wrote:

changer7 wrote:

Grandmar is correct, the feeling I got in sydney is that you can't even look at people you don't know even if you are not trying to flirt with them. No one seems approachable, people just put on an arrogant face like they don't know you. It's like no one is human and in their own world. This is especially true amongst young people who go to university.

If you try to look at woman to make a conversation with them they just look away as if you stole something, people are not approachable.

It's not my imagination. It feels like a robotic society with no courtesy. Even on public transport people don't show any manners like excuse me, and don't even say thank you or make eye contact.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you.  I'm dubious of you already because you have nothing on your profile. Of course people are approachable, but why are you just wanting to make conversation with someone? Unless you have a genuine reason to need to talk to someone, then these days people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy. Excuse mes and thankyous are disappearing all over the world, it's not just Sydney.

Thinking the same...

Is just someone here needs attention I guess.

 

#30 6-11-2017 3:01 AM

jacobi
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

shavy wrote:

Is just someone here needs attention I guess.

smile smile smile

 

#31 6-11-2017 2:24 PM

grandmar
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

jacobi wrote:

changer7 wrote:

It's not my imagination. It feels like a robotic society with no courtesy. Even on public transport people don't show any manners like excuse me, and don't even say thank you or make eye contact.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you. ... people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy.

That was my thought too.  I find when I smile at people, they usually smile back. I also have to be careful, especially in the Caribbean and Bahamas, to mind my manners as the people there will be more helpful if I remember to smile and say Good Morning and wait for them to answer before I go demanding service like I might at home.  I can't start out with "Can you give me some tea please?"   Even saying Please is not enough if you don't say "Hello" first.

 

#32 6-11-2017 8:17 PM

nolan
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

shavy wrote:

ulis wrote:

jacobi wrote:

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you.  I'm dubious of you already because you have nothing on your profile. Of course people are approachable, but why are you just wanting to make conversation with someone? Unless you have a genuine reason to need to talk to someone, then these days people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy. Excuse mes and thankyous are disappearing all over the world, it's not just Sydney.

Thinking the same...

Is just someone here needs attention I guess.

Without referencing anyone, many people on the street will appear hostile if the person who approaches them either
1) is hideous looking (think the Beast)
2) dresses way out of norm
3) stinks and seems like they haven't taken a bath or brushed their teeth in ages
4) don't look like anything similar or familiar to the person being approached

Let's face it, strangers have no business approaching others unless to ask directions or help. Even then, some strangers offer things for sale without really caring about the inidivudak they're selling to. Hence the hostility. I'm a naturally friendly person but I avoid strangers who fit in those 4 descriptions I mentioned. Some people are not worth wasting time on, but of course first impressions, while they matter, aren't always a perfect gauge of whether the person is nice or not.

 

#33 6-12-2017 3:41 AM

sarahelaine
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

grandmar wrote:

jacobi wrote:

changer7 wrote:

It's not my imagination. It feels like a robotic society with no courtesy. Even on public transport people don't show any manners like excuse me, and don't even say thank you or make eye contact.

I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you. ... people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy.

That was my thought too.  I find when I smile at people, they usually smile back. I also have to be careful, especially in the Caribbean and Bahamas, to mind my manners as the people there will be more helpful if I remember to smile and say Good Morning and wait for them to answer before I go demanding service like I might at home.  I can't start out with "Can you give me some tea please?"   Even saying Please is not enough if you don't say "Hello" first.

I absolutely agree, and I think it's something that some people who have grown up with modern customer service/self service really struggle with. I noticed it when we were in Uganda. The local culture is very reliant on polite conversation about the weather/football/the world before you get down to business. The younger aid workers and volunteers, even the peace corp guys, would order beers at the pool by flicking their fingers and saying something like "can I get a beer? Thanks". It probably sounded perfectly polite to them. But the local standard would have been something more like "hello, how are you? Yes, the rain is holding off for now. Of course, the gardens need it. Please could you get me a beer?" I winced watching people flick their fingers at the waiters because it was so alien to local culture and although they did get service, it was a lot less friendly and helpful than the service people who knew the score about having a chat were getting.  I just wish whoever was in charge of the peace corp and volunteer placements had taken them aside and explained that there were just different ways of getting things done that would have made life easier.

 

#34 6-12-2017 4:05 AM

kvom
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

I wonder about someone who registers at a travel site just to complain about something like this.

 

#35 6-13-2017 2:19 AM

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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

sarahelaine wrote:

grandmar wrote:

jacobi wrote:


I hate to say it, but maybe it's just you. ... people do tend to be hesitant about engaging, particularly with a guy.

That was my thought too.  I find when I smile at people, they usually smile back. I also have to be careful, especially in the Caribbean and Bahamas, to mind my manners as the people there will be more helpful if I remember to smile and say Good Morning and wait for them to answer before I go demanding service like I might at home.  I can't start out with "Can you give me some tea please?"   Even saying Please is not enough if you don't say "Hello" first.

I absolutely agree, and I think it's something that some people who have grown up with modern customer service/self service really struggle with. I noticed it when we were in Uganda. The local culture is very reliant on polite conversation about the weather/football/the world before you get down to business. The younger aid workers and volunteers, even the peace corp guys, would order beers at the pool by flicking their fingers and saying something like "can I get a beer? Thanks". It probably sounded perfectly polite to them. But the local standard would have been something more like "hello, how are you? Yes, the rain is holding off for now. Of course, the gardens need it. Please could you get me a beer?" I winced watching people flick their fingers at the waiters because it was so alien to local culture and although they did get service, it was a lot less friendly and helpful than the service people who knew the score about having a chat were getting.  I just wish whoever was in charge of the peace corp and volunteer placements had taken them aside and explained that there were just different ways of getting things done that would have made life easier.

Exactly! There are many cultures for which small talk is the norm before talking business. And yes, even compared to just barging into a bar as if you knew the bartender by his first name before flicking the fingers.

Customer service is not about being subservient, especially so when patrons or customer are rude to begin with. Wonder Woman would probably equate that to some lesser sort of slavery LOL

 

#36 6-13-2017 4:22 AM

jacobi
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

kvom wrote:

I wonder about someone who registers at a travel site just to complain about something like this.

lol so true

 

#37 6-13-2017 4:50 AM

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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

nolan wrote:

sarahelaine wrote:

grandmar wrote:


That was my thought too.  I find when I smile at people, they usually smile back. I also have to be careful, especially in the Caribbean and Bahamas, to mind my manners as the people there will be more helpful if I remember to smile and say Good Morning and wait for them to answer before I go demanding service like I might at home.  I can't start out with "Can you give me some tea please?"   Even saying Please is not enough if you don't say "Hello" first.

I absolutely agree, and I think it's something that some people who have grown up with modern customer service/self service really struggle with. I noticed it when we were in Uganda. The local culture is very reliant on polite conversation about the weather/football/the world before you get down to business. The younger aid workers and volunteers, even the peace corp guys, would order beers at the pool by flicking their fingers and saying something like "can I get a beer? Thanks". It probably sounded perfectly polite to them. But the local standard would have been something more like "hello, how are you? Yes, the rain is holding off for now. Of course, the gardens need it. Please could you get me a beer?" I winced watching people flick their fingers at the waiters because it was so alien to local culture and although they did get service, it was a lot less friendly and helpful than the service people who knew the score about having a chat were getting.  I just wish whoever was in charge of the peace corp and volunteer placements had taken them aside and explained that there were just different ways of getting things done that would have made life easier.

Exactly! There are many cultures for which small talk is the norm before talking business. And yes, even compared to just barging into a bar as if you knew the bartender by his first name before flicking the fingers.

Customer service is not about being subservient, especially so when patrons or customer are rude to begin with. Wonder Woman would probably equate that to some lesser sort of slavery LOL

I just want to add a little bit of my experience live in Copenhagen Denmark.
It is absolutely not true that everybody will smile if you smile to them.

when I smile to a stranger at the street here, they just look away and did not smile back.  Probably they think I am crazy. (whereas in NZ and Australia or other countries, they will smile back).  It is not common for danish people to smile at the stranger on the street, lets alone make a conversation.  Even when I meet my upstairs neighboar in the apartment, we keep it brief, and if I start a conversation something like - how are you? and they start frown upon me and saying: what do you say?
People here are more private and personal and keep to themselves. I do have a couple of good neighboards who chat with me when we meet up on the street or hallway.  But I found most danes are private person.

So I supposed it is a culture thing.

Every country has a good and a bad things, so just take it as it is and learn from it.

 

#38 6-13-2017 8:17 AM

gemmapurcell
Gemma
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

Hi All,

I've just a moment ago went from a trip to Sydney, Australia. I'm originally from Chicago.

The trip was great, but it seems that people are moderately aggressive.  I really excited for that trip.

 

#39 6-14-2017 12:39 AM

danly
Perth, Australia
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

To summarize this thread;

- Traveler goes to Sydney, has a less than pleasant experience with locals.
- Some travbuddy members who had a different experience; criticize, denigrate and belittle OP.

To be honest, I think this says more about hostility of the responders than the OP, and it's quite disappointing to see, especially on a site like TB which promotes itself on its 'friendly and welcoming' members.

Shame on the some of you.

Last edited by danly (6-14-2017 12:39 AM)

 

#40 6-14-2017 2:01 AM

jacobi
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

gemmapurcell wrote:

I don't believe that at all in Sydney.I think it's just your imagination.

gemmapurcell wrote:

Hi All, I've just a moment ago went from a trip to Sydney, Australia. I'm originally from Chicago. The trip was great, but it seems that people are moderately aggressive.  I really excited for that trip.

Gemma, is that second quote yours because I'm not sure what to make of it and didn't seem to follow on from the first comment you had already made.

 

#41 6-14-2017 6:42 AM

grandmar
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

danly wrote:

To summarize this thread;

- Traveler goes to Sydney, has a less than pleasant experience with locals.
- Some travbuddy members who had a different experience; criticize, denigrate and belittle OP.

To be honest, I think this says more about hostility of the responders than the OP, and it's quite disappointing to see, especially on a site like TB which promotes itself on its 'friendly and welcoming' members.

Shame on the some of you.

I have traveled with or seen people who were constantly finding fault with everything, and they are annoying and I see how they are not treated so well by others.  When I read the OP's post, I wondered whether he was one of those types of people.  Generally speaking the way you treat people is the way that you are treated in return.  So someone who finds consistent fault with the way they are treated is - in my experience - probably part of the problem.  Maybe just by being too easily annoyed by little things, and then radiating that annoyance which would make things worse.  Also his remark about flirting was concerning.

His post wasn't a question or a request for help.  It was a complaint about a specific part of the world.  Those of us who have visited that part of the world and had a completely different experience have a right to say that our experience was different.  I think initially there was an effort to ascertain why he had that experience.

There was a certain amount of piling on as things developed, but that's inevitable no matter what site you are on.

 

#42 6-15-2017 2:25 AM

Polh
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

@Changer7  Did you seriously subscribed to this website to complain ? Maybe you should update your profile a bit first. Cause you seem like a scammer to me, sorry seen many profiles circling around on TB like yours, with profiles not filled in properly but allot of garbage posts in the forums.

Sydney is a great City just been there. I'm starting to think you might be from Melbourne

Last edited by Polh (6-15-2017 2:27 AM)

 

#43 6-15-2017 6:54 AM

grandmar
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

Polh wrote:

@Changer7  Did you seriously subscribed to this website to complain ? Maybe you should update your profile a bit first. Cause you seem like a scammer to me, sorry seen many profiles circling around on TB like yours, with profiles not filled in properly but allot of garbage posts in the forums.

Sydney is a great City just been there. I'm starting to think you might be from Melbourne

I didn't even think about that because I don't see any way that you could get from that complaint to some type of scam.  I would think more along the lies of a troll.

 

#44 6-15-2017 8:40 AM

shavy
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

grandmar wrote:

Polh wrote:

@Changer7  Did you seriously subscribed to this website to complain ? Maybe you should update your profile a bit first. Cause you seem like a scammer to me, sorry seen many profiles circling around on TB like yours, with profiles not filled in properly but allot of garbage posts in the forums.

Sydney is a great City just been there. I'm starting to think you might be from Melbourne

I didn't even think about that because I don't see any way that you could get from that complaint to some type of scam.  I would think more along the lies of a troll.

Lol this is gonna be a never ending thread big_smile

 

#45 6-15-2017 8:52 PM

nolan
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

grandmar wrote:

danly wrote:

To summarize this thread;

- Traveler goes to Sydney, has a less than pleasant experience with locals.
- Some travbuddy members who had a different experience; criticize, denigrate and belittle OP.

To be honest, I think this says more about hostility of the responders than the OP, and it's quite disappointing to see, especially on a site like TB which promotes itself on its 'friendly and welcoming' members.

Shame on the some of you.

I have traveled with or seen people who were constantly finding fault with everything, and they are annoying and I see how they are not treated so well by others.  When I read the OP's post, I wondered whether he was one of those types of people.  Generally speaking the way you treat people is the way that you are treated in return.  So someone who finds consistent fault with the way they are treated is - in my experience - probably part of the problem.  Maybe just by being too easily annoyed by little things, and then radiating that annoyance which would make things worse.  Also his remark about flirting was concerning.

His post wasn't a question or a request for help.  It was a complaint about a specific part of the world.  Those of us who have visited that part of the world and had a completely different experience have a right to say that our experience was different.  I think initially there was an effort to ascertain why he had that experience.

There was a certain amount of piling on as things developed, but that's inevitable no matter what site you are on.

I think Grandmar hit the nail right on the head. Any respectable Travbuddy doesn't just go on the site to vent a complaint, especially without identifying himself/herself, while building hostility and not trust in the process. That kind of behavior is normally reserved for trolls, and vigilant TravBuddies are not going to be pushed over if somebody posts negative comments about a particular city or place. Each person has his or her own positive and negative experiences, and how they choose to see the situation (glass half empty or glass half full) easily identifies the Paradigms they are operating from. I mean, when I first joined Travbuddy, my first post wa not to complain about Sydney or some other place. Over the years, I've posted over 3,000 forum responses and while I may have made scathing remarks or criticized others a number of times, overall most active Travbuddies know who I am (online and more so in person), hence I don't get as much hostility even when sensitive and contentious topics are the order of the day.

Bottom line is, people post to elicit reactions, whether positive or negative. Some troll the forums to vent, bash or have nothing better to do. Others post because they are genuinely interested in getting feedback from fellow travelers, especially some who are their friends or they look up to them for solid advice.

Now it would be interesting to see how the OP responds to all these requests for him to update his profile and tell more about himself. That alone can increase the trust and respect level.

Cheers

 

#46 6-17-2017 1:12 PM

Sept922
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

kvom wrote:

I wonder about someone who registers at a travel site just to complain about something like this.

Exactly!!!!!

 

#47 6-17-2017 4:39 PM

planxty
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

Of course, irrespective of the relative merits or demerits of the original post, the answer is so simple.  If you don't like it, stay at home.

It really is that easy.  Either live with the cultural norms in a country where you are a guest after all, or just don't go.

 

#48 6-17-2017 5:55 PM

jacobi
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

Lucky you didn't visit North Sentinel Island

 

#49 6-18-2017 9:52 AM

anywherebuthere1
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

The cost? About $70; a one way ticket to Melbourne LOL

 

#50 6-21-2017 9:21 PM

gemmapurcell
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Re: cost of a smile in Sydney Australia?

I also visit Australia twice , I also faced the same behavior from the local teenager,  but if you ignore the matter  and take it casually then  there is no problem to travel  in Australia.

 
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